Case #3
Paypal never said sorry.
THIS IS THE CRAZIEST AND MOST DISSAPOINTING PAYPAL CASE I EVER HAD. IT ALL BEGAN WHEN I WAS ASKED BY THE BUYER TO FRAUD MY INSURANCE COMPANY, AFTER HE RECEIVED THE GOODS IN GOOD ORDER.
Now, some may even go for it. Not me. So I replied to the buyer. No, I will not fraud my insurance. I have copies of all of this, and even SEND THAT TO PAYPAL. You would think that clears the case, right? No sir! You are mistaken. Paypal IGNORED that information, I send it THREE times. Three times it was igonored.
Here is the email of the fraud proposal But it's better to read the whole text here, so you get a better picture of how PAYPAL in the end tried to make me pay.
So now what happens.... At first I say: No sorry, no insurance fraud please.
DIRECTLY after this, the buyer files a complaint at paypal that I send him broken products. Mind you, he send me emails before, the goods arrived in good order. And yes, I send that to Paypal. Guess what... Do you think they read it, or they ignore it? Do I have to tell you?
THE RESULT WAS, PAYPAL SAID THE BUYER WAS RIGHT. THEY MUST HAVE MAGIC VISION AT PAYPAL, BECAUSE THEY DID NOT ASK ME AT ALL, AND YET KNOW THE FULL TRUTH BY MAGIC VISION POWER. EVEN HARRY POTTER NEEDS A CRYSTAL BOWL, BUT PAYPAL CAN DO MAGIC WITHOUT IT.
I TRIED EVERYTHING, BUT THEY SAID I SEND BROKEN PRODUCTS, PERIOD. AND WHEN PAYPAL SAIS SO, THAT'S HOW IT IS. NOW THAT IS CURIOUS, BECAUSE I HAVE SEVERAL EMAILS OF THE BUYER SAYING TEH GOODS WER RECEIVED WELL. . THEN THE WHOLE DISPUTE MACHINE (SOFTWARE) STARTED, AND EACH TIME I ENTERED AN INFORMATION, LIKE FOR INSTANCE THE "OK" EMAIL OF THE BUYER, IT GETS MORE PERVERTED! EACH TIME I ENTER SOMETHING (IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT) THE SYSTEM DECIDES AGAINST ME WITHIN JUST SECONDS, AND WANTS TO TAKE THE NEXT STEP, UNTIL AT THE FINAL STEP MY MONEY WAS PERMANENTLY GONE.
SO NOW I TOOK A LAWYER.
HE TOLD ME IF THE BUYER DID NOT PAY, IT CAN BE BROUGHT IN COURT, AND A NORMAL JUDGE WILL NOT FOLLOW PAYPAL'S DECISION, BUT MAKE HIS OWN. SO THE LAWSUIT IS AGAINST THE BUYER, NOT AGAINST PAYPAL. TO HAVE A BEGINNING FOR THIS, HE ADVISED ME TO SEND A FORMAL OBJECTION TO PAYPAL AND TO THE BUYER, AND GIVE WHATEVER REPLY TO HIM, AND NOT ANSWER IT MYSELF.
AFTER THIS I WAS SEND A RUDE EMAIL BY THE BUYER, HE WILL NEVER PAY ME. NOW THIS WAS WHAT JUST WHAT MY LAYWER WANTED HIM TO SAY. THANK YOU, Mr. LAWRENCE:)
THE SURPRIZE CAME FROM PAYPAL. I ASKED FOR A FORMAL REPLY BY EMAIL, AND THE REASONS. THEY MUST HAVE SMELLED IT. A WOMEN FROM PAYPAL CONTACTS ME AS SWEET AS A PUSSYCAT. SHE RE-OPENS THE "PERMANENTLY CLOSED" CASE. SIX WEEKS LATER I HAVE MY MONEY BACK, BUT ONLY PARTIALLY THE SHIPMENT COST.
HEY.... LOOK INTO THE DOCUMENTS I SHOW YOU HERE. A CHILD CAN SEE I WAS FRAUDED BY THE BUYER.
Paypal never said sorry.
As we all know, Paypal is not only protecting honest buyers against fraudulent sellers. The also claim to protect honest sellers against fraudulent buyers, right? Well I thought so until now. Just look what can happen to an honest seller, who gets in contact with a fraudulent buyer!!!
The buyer, Mr. Richard M.L. from the USA bought quite fragile items from me. They were of the kind you need only one pair of. Then interestingly after half a year he reported they were so excellent he wanted to a spare set. Wow.... 600 Euro to store a spare set on the shelf, and never use it? Hard to believe. The way he wrote his emails made my stomach feel funny. He was so nice, his words so well choosen, too nice. had this strange feeling about trouble coming up. Perhaps you sometimes have this also. An alert lamp inside my head started to burn. So, I prepared from the beginning to make no mistake. I triple boxed it, with the outer box being a SIX-layered box. The box was so strong, I could stand on it! To prove this, for in case I had to, I have pictures of this!!!! So nobody can claim bad packaging. In there was the second shipment carton of a normal kind. And in there was a factory carton with the products, and in there were thick foam cushions. All of this nicely pictured before shipment and well documented. So you think I was safe? Read the rest, and be amazed!
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Right after receiving the delivery, problems began. The buyer wrote me, the box showed extreme signs of mistreatment. Never ever in his life he has seen something terrible as this. Curiously, he did NOT report this to the carrier company.
So I retro-reported the damage over here in Germany, which is the wrong place on earth since the boxes are in the USA. Well they were generous to me, I have a platinum acount with them. We were advised to open the box anyway, since it was virtually impossible to damage the contents. And INDEED :) the second, internal carton came out undamaged, as reported personally by the buyer, by email. FROM NOW ON, STRANGE THINGS STARTED TO HAPPEN
Screen shot of the good receival confirmation here |
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So... The contents came out undamaged. BUT..... the buyer still wanted to send it back. The objection was, he didn't trust the parts to be good with the outer box damage. So he had a specialist look at it. After the testing, he confirms the parts work perfect.
Screen shot of a specialist's "ok products" report here |
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But... the buyer dis not give up. So the box was elephant proof, and the goods were confirmed ok. Now read this! He suggest to me, we fraud the insurance company. With the money that he puts in my pockets that way, he will make a deal with me. Unbelievable, he plain writes me that by email, leaving written pro of. Too bad for him, I refused his deal.
Screen shot of this fraud proposal here
I REPORTED THIS TO PAYPAL. |
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So we are in a situation now, where the buyer received the items. He confirmed good function himself. He reported a positive test by a specialist. If you think the case is closed now, you are mistaken!
THEN: FOR TWO WEEKS HE USES THE ITEMS. NO PROBLEMS ARISE.
Then, more than two weeks later he reports the items to Paypal as non conforming products. Meaning he did not receive what he bought. A long and MOST REMARKABLE PROCESS AT PAYPAL STARTS, AND THIS IS WHAT THIS CASE IS ABOUT.
Screen shot of problems reported here. |
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| Step1: |
First, the money is grabbed out of my acount. The useual Paypal behaviour.
Of course I object, and file some of the above screen shots ar Paypal. Directly after I file the last screen shot, (same as you can see above here) I expected somebody to contact me, to give me the money back. Instead of this, the program automatically continues with Step2.
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| Step2: |
The program writes me the buyer may send back the goods. When I receive the goods I should confirm. |
Step3: |
Glass items arrive here 48 hours later, totally crushed, simply in a book package. Crushed Glass pieces fell out after opening it. Mind you, I send it myself in a HUGE box of 60x40x40cm, triple boxed.
I object at Paypal against this silly packaging method. I say it was deliberately send this way, to have it damaged. All Paypal did, was use my objection as receival conformation. So the logic was, when I complain about a bad package, I must have received it.
NOW READ THIS. Immediately after I file this objection, with large size pictures of the excellent the way i send it, and crazy the way I received it, AGAIN THE PROGRAM TAKES THE NEXT STEP, NOT REPONDING TO MY INFORMATION. The case is now closed. They say: OK! You confirm to have received the goods, and SO the buyer gets his money back,
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| Step4: |
I posted this case on a forum, and also asked my lawyer. He tells me:
Object by normal Email to Paypal. |
| Step5: |
Interestingly.... Now here in Germany someone adopts the case. A woman from Paypal Germany called the center in the USA, to ask for a case re-open.
Paypal re-opens the " permanently decided and closed" case. |
| Step6: |
I have to send the items to the USA. On my own cost. |
| Step7: |
After the goods arrive, I received my money back. However 50 Euro shipment cost are lost, and l lost are many hours of email writing to paypal. Also lost is my confidence in the sellers protection process.
Disclaimer: I am aware paypal is fully honest to me and the rest of the world. The above texts is only my personal opinion about an issue that I did not like. |
Disclaimer: I am aware paypal is fully honest to me and the rest of the world as well. The above texts is only my personal opinion about an issue that took place. |